By: Bradley Loves
This post is a fictional debate! It is written by me, and meant only to stimulate THINKING.
While written by my hand…, I will be playing the roles of BOTH Socrates…, and of the New Ager. There will be NO favoritism…, I will be “fair” to both sides.
In both roles…, I will be honest and frank! I will not lie! If something is a “belief”…, then I will say so! The “outcome” of the debate will be for YOU the reader to decide! I will make no commentary after the fact!
Socrates: Tell me, as a New Ager…, do you “believe” everything that is printed concerning the New Age?
New Ager: Honestly…, I don’t know. Probably not.
Socrates: Fair enough. Do you think that an “Ascension” is coming?
New Ager: Yes, I do!
Socrates: Why do you believe that?
New Ager: Well…, it’s been written about…, and talked about, and it seems like most people agree that it is coming! So yes…, I do believe it.
Socrates: I see…, so it is your position that as long as something has been written about, and talked about…, and most people agree on it…, then it is the truth?
New Ager: No, not necessarily!
Socrates: Ah…, then it is only certain things that have been written about, talked about and agreed upon that are true…, while other things with the same type of foundations could be untrue. Is that a fair assessment of your position?
New Ager: Yes…, that’s fair.
Socrates: Tell me then…, how is it that you decide which is true, and which is not?
New Ager: I look for people that I can trust to help me decide!
Socrates: Fair enough…, so your decisions about what is true, and what is not true is based on what “others” tell you…, is that a fair assessment?
New Ager: Certainly not! I do my own thinking!
Socrates: I see…, so it is your position that YOU ALONE decide what is true, and what is not!
New Ager: Well…, no…, what I do…, is listen to all sides…, and THEN make my own decision! So it’s kind of both actually.
Socrates: I see…, so it is your position that when making decisions about what is true and what is untrue…, you first listen to many different people…, and then decide on your own…, which is true and which is false! Is that a fair statement?
New Ager: Yes…, that is fair. I think actually that this is how I do it!
Socrates: So it is your position that when making decisions about what is true and what is false…, it is a process of listening to many different people…, and then deciding on your own…, what is true…, am I correct?
New Ager: Well…, partly…, I also meditate and “go within”. And it depends how I “feel” about information…, before I completely trust it.
Socrates: Hmmm…, so let me get this straight. You FIRST, listen to many people to find out what they believe. Then, you decide for YOURSELF…, what is true and what is not true…, BUT…, you also go within…, to see how it feels…, as a last precaution. Is that a fair assessment?
New Ager: (hesitation) Uh…, I think so…..
Socrates: (smiles) There is no wrong answer…, I’m just trying to find out how you decide what it is that you believe. Have I made a fair statement?
New Ager: Yes…, it’s fair!
Socrates: Do you do any research as part of your decision making process?
New Ager: Oh…, yea…, I forgot that part. Of course I do!
Socrates: So let me get this straight. You FIRST, listen to many people to find out what they believe. Then, you decide for YOURSELF…, what is true and what is not true…, BUT…, you also go within…, to see how it feels…, as a final precaution, but ONLY after doing “research”! Is this a fair assessment of your entire process?
New Ager: (Long Pause) I think so…….
Socrates: Do you listen to Channelers, or read the things they write?
New Ager: Of course!
Socrates: Do you believe everything they say, or write?
New Ager: Certainly NOT!
Socrates: So it is your position that not all of them are being truthful?
New Ager: I didn’t say that…
Socrates: So you DO believe everything they say and everything they write then? Is that fair?
New Ager: Not at all.
Socrates: So, if you don’t believe everything they say and write…, then some of them…, or at least a part of what some of them say or write is NOT truthful. Is that a fair statement?
New Ager: (very long pause) Yes…, I guess that is a fair statement, kind of…
Socrates: Tell me…, how do you “know” or decide which ones are telling you the truth…, and which ones are not?
New Ager: (cricket…., cricket…., only the sound of crickets are heard)
Socrates: (smiles) Would it be fair to say that you use the same method we discussed earlier? First you listen to many of them…, then, you decide for yourself which ones are telling the truth…, and which ones are not…, but before doing that…, you “go within” as a final precaution…, but only AFTER doing research?
New Ager: (pause) Well…, I may have over exaggerated the “research” part just a little bit. I usually just only read what they say, I don’t really check into it! It’s more of a “belief” kind of thing.
Socrates: So let me get this part straight then. In your process for finding out the truth…, you first listen to many people, but you make your own decision about what is true. You go within to see how it feels, but ONLY after doing research. When it comes to Channeling, or Channeled Material…, the process changes to more of a “faith” based process? You just have to believe? Is that fair?
New Ager: Well…, sort of…, I’m not really sure…
Socrates: You did tell me that NOT ALL channelers are telling the truth, did you not? So how then do you decide which are truthful and which are not?
New Ager: Well…, truthfully…, I just usually read the ones that are posted on websites that I like! I read those because I trust the person running it.
Socrates: Okay…, so when it comes to Channeling, and Channeled Material…, you trust and believe only the ones that are posted on your favorite website? Is that your process and how you decide which are telling the truth?
New Ager: No…, I don’t trust all of them…, just the messages that are given by Jesus and Arch Angel Micheal…, and a few others like that…
Socrates: So let me see if I can grasp your process. The messages given out by Arch Angel Micheal, Jesus, and a few others are truthful because they are given out by important sounding people from history and the Bible?
New Ager: Well…, no…, like I said.., it’s more of a matter of Belief…, you just don’t understand!
Socrates: It’s not about me understanding anything! It’s about YOU understanding why you believe what you do…, and learning how you come to decide the TRUTH!
Socrates: Tell me…, is it “possible” to believe something that is NOT TRUE?
New Ager: What do you mean?
Socrates: Can people “believe” things…, while at the same time…, they are not true?
New Ager: (frustrated and nasty) I suppose they could, but what does that have to do with our discussion?
Socrates: (smiles) Listen friend…, it was YOU who said that deciding the truth about channeled messages was a matter of belief…, NOT ME! I’m just trying to get to the bottom of how you operate. For example…, a child sincerely believes in Santa Claus because he has been told to by his parents. Does the child’s belief in Santa Claus make it real or true?
New Ager: No…, of course not…, but that is different! Santa Claus is fiction…, these beings are REAL!
Socrates: (pause) But, not all of them tell the truth…., at least according to you.
New Ager: (cricket, cricket)
Socrates: So again…, the question is: How do you decide which ones are telling you the truth?
New Ager: Well…, you just kind of have to listen to what they say…, and then decide!
Socrates: AH…., so it’s the message they are giving out that tells you if it’s truthful or not!
New Ager: (relieved) Yes…, that’s it! It’s the message.
Socrates: So then tell me friend…, what KIND of message would lead you to decide that the entity giving it was being truthful, and thus earns the right to be believed?
New Ager: (nervous again) Well…, it would have to be very loving! And, give lot’s of good information!
Socrates: Truthful information?
New Ager: Of course truthful!
Socates: Which would be more important…, Lovingness…, or the truthfulness of the information?
New Ager: I’m not sure what you are getting at.
Socrates: Well, a message could be given lovingly…, AND not hold any truth in it…, couldn’t it?
New Ager: (very hesitantly) Well…, I suppose it’s possible…, but not likely.
Socrates: Really? But didn’t you just say that some channeled messages are not true? And, that you did not believe every “message” that is said or written? You did say that right?
New Ager: Well…, yea…., but….
Socrates: AND..., even those messages which are NOT TRUE…, were given out in a loving sounding way…, were they not?
New Ager: (cricket, cricket)
Socrates: Would you say then that it is the “truthfulness” of the given information which is MORE important to believing it, than how lovingly the message is delivered?
New Ager: I suppose so…
Socrates: And so, if it had been demonstrated that a particular Channeled Entity had NOT BEEN TRUTHFUL…, or had given certain predictions which had not come true…, would you then say that “believing” in them would be inadvisable?
New Ager: (long sigh) I’m not sure.
Socrates: This is your process we are discussing…, if YOU don’t know…, who does?
New Ager: Okay then…, yes…, if they’ve missed predictions…, and have said things that did not come to pass…, then believing them is probably not advisable!
Socrates: Even if the “message” was delivered lovingly?
New Ager: (short tempered) Yes…, we’ve already discussed that…, move on!
Socrates: Are there any channelers that you are reading and listening to currently?
New Ager: A few….
Socrates: Did ANY of those Channeled Entities say in the few years running up to December 21, 2012…, that ALL of humanity…, the good and the bad…, were going to ASCEND in a matter of moments on that date?
New Ager: A few did yes….
Socrates: A few?
New Ager: Okay…, many did!
Socrates: Did that happen?
New Ager: NO…, of course not.
Socrates: Do you still read and listen to some of those channeled entities who made that faulty prediction?
New Ager: (very slowly) One or two…..
Socrates: So then…, truthfulness of the message IS NOT important to you in deciding whether or not to “believe”…, is that what you are saying?
New Ager: To be perfectly honest…, at this point.., I don’t know WHAT I’m saying!
Socrates: (pause) We are talking about how you decide what is TRUTH…, and what is not!
New Ager: (exasperated) Look buddy…, with me…, it’s a matter of HOPE! I don’t care anymore. I just want out of here! I don’t like this place…., IT SUCKS! If someone is telling me there is a way out…, then that’s what I want!
Socrates: Ah…, I see. TRUTH is what “sounds good”…., and, what sounds like something that you want to see? Is that it?
New Ager: (breathing hard…., cricket, cricket)
Socrates: So then truth for you… is based on if it makes you feel good or not…, but not necessarily about whether it is based in fact. Am I stating your position correctly?
Socrates: Would you also agree that the idea of Santa Claus…, while making children feel good…, and filling them with hope…, is STILL an untruth?
New Ager: Look…, I’m tired…, I don’t want to talk about it anymore…, you could be right…, but I still want to hope! There’s nothing wrong with hope is there?
Socrates: Not a thing. But hoping is not deciding about somethings truthfulness!
It is merely the unenviable position of desiring an outcome which may, or may never occur! It is a drug (of sorts). It numbs the mind, and distracts it from the reality of the present moment! It makes you feel good…, if only for awhile…, before you have to once again return to the stark reality of what IS.
Well, there has been another one who simply blows everything the channelers say out of the water. For me, this kind of information made everything they say suspicious right from the start.
For example this video:
Painful to read this. This has been, and to some degree still is, me. :(. I followed channeled info and chose to believe it because believing what really appears to be true in this earth life is just plain hard and depressing. I found it to “feel better” to have some hope in something even if it wasn’t true (and I didn’t really want to question it). I also read from sites that would be labeled “conspiracy” but could not share or discuss that info with even the closest of friends because they admonished it as being too Dark and fear based.
Now I feel like I am in limbo. I finally saw the fallacy in channeled information but it’s like a drug in some ways, I keep wanting some “feel good” information or hope. I know it’s not to be found in channeled info but there’s still a desire to know and understand what the hell is going on and to know how to navigate this life. I guess that’s what led me to this blog, and Jean’s and Mark Passio’s.
So now here I am, choosing to be aware of what is truthful and much of the dark, evil filth that controls our world appears to be actually happening. And my next and biggest concern then, how and what can I, as one individual, do about it?
Bradley, I like both Socrates articles – very intriguing. Asking ?’s is definitely needed. I have also learned that the deeper I go the less I know. I guess that is why a guru can sit still for days on a hillside doing nothing and know everything.
Shelly, I too read (past tense) the channelings and then realized it was bogus – thanks to Bradley. Simply be happy that you now know how to find (or continue searching for) truth and can see through deception. My path is to join no organization that requests anything from you. They need you – you do not need them to connect – you have everything you need inside. I attach myself to nothing and simply look at as information – like watching the news for entertainment. I was asked a simple question recently, “what do I really know”? Sit down for 10-15 minutes in silence and contemplate this question – the results may surprise you.
In my case I didn’t seek love at all and looked for the truth. Because, after all, only with Truth you can never make mistakes. Anyways, this comment is for people like you.